Footpath 181

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StePee
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby StePee » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:48 pm

Richard_H wrote:Stephen,

According to the Lib-Dem propaganda sheet "Chorlton Focus", which was popped through my letterbox today, Victor Chamberlain is saying "Local Police (my emphasis) object to the reopening as it could could lead to increased crime and anti social behaviour".

Answer me that!


Is it within the Police's remit to decide if the Council should carry out it's obligations to maintain public rights of way?

Land owners trying to collude with or influence Councils into allowing public rights of way to become obstructed, fall out of use, and eventually get closed is an old tradition; particularly in the countryside. It's rather like alley gating, but by the back door; without going through due process.

stephennewton
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:02 pm

Local police support the closure of a great many footpaths currently in use. If we closed every footpath that could be (or even just those that have been) used by criminals, we would have nowhere to walk. Forunately we don't live in a police state.

In any case the court is able only to consider whether the path is unlawfully closed or not. The police have not applied to close the path.

WingardiumLeviosa
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby WingardiumLeviosa » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:52 pm

Hmmmm....

In these days of austerity and rising crime everybody I know is falling over themselves to apply for alley-gating schemes, which, at this moment in time, are pretty much few and far between on account of a lack of funding. And in this case the aim is to get the footpath re-opened (against local police advice!) in an area that's pretty susceptible to burglaries in the first place?

I'm sorry, but I can't help the feeling there is more going on here than meets the eye....
The Map is not the Territory.

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annie
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby annie » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:54 pm

stephennewton wrote:Local police support the closure of a great many footpaths currently in use. If we closed every footpath that could be (or even just those that have been) used by criminals, we would have nowhere to walk. Forunately we don't live in a police state.


Yet they do have a ridiculous amount of influence on road closures and one-way systems, often taking loads of traffic from perfectly navigable roads (sometimes unfairly called ratruns) and pushing them all onto main trunk routes, thereby creating further traffic delays.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

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annie
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby annie » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:55 pm

WingardiumLeviosa wrote:Hmmmm....

In these days of austerity and rising crime everybody I know is falling over themselves to apply for alley-gating schemes, which, at this moment in time, are pretty much few and far between on account of a lack of funding. And in this case the aim is to get the footpath re-opened (against local police advice!) in an area that's pretty susceptible to burglaries in the first place?

I'm sorry, but I can't help the feeling there is more going on here than meets the eye....


Agreed. It's probably a government conspiracy.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

stephennewton
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:59 am

I'm sorry, but I can't help the feeling there is more going on here than meets the eye...

The conspirators are the Lib Dems, who have jumped on this very short path that affects very few people and created a populist NIMBY campaign. They are also good at misinformation (e.g. grossly exaggerated costs) and like to pretend this is a council proposal, so they can pretend it's an example of Labour waste.

In these days of austerity and rising crime...

I know lots of people are afraid of crime and nobody can guarantee any particular street will never suffer a burglary or other crime. But I certainly don't recognise the picture of rising crime. We've not suffered any incidents for a couple of years now and have never experienced graffiti or other vandalism. At the start of the summer we removed fences, barbed wire, dummy CCTV cameras and other stuff that made it look like we lived in a war zone, that had been installed by our over zealous former management. We also turned off all the exterior lighting (although we obviously have council maintained street lights); another move that earned us nothing but praise.

It's the fear of crime, rather than crime itself, that's on the rise. If you remove all the junk that tells you evil doers lurk on every corner (and never, ever read the Daily Mail.) it's easier to chill out and enjoy yourself.

yoss
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby yoss » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:16 am

Quite so. We are in an era of declining crime and have been for the last 20 years or so.

Richard_H
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby Richard_H » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:09 am

Last month's riots excepted, obviously.

yoss
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby yoss » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:14 am

Factor them in and crime will still be miles lower than it was 15 years ago.

gitface
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby gitface » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:18 am

StePee wrote:It's rather like alley gating, but by the back door.

Quoted for posterity.

We do suffer from the proximity of the footpath which runs between Carringtons opposite the end of Beech Road and St. Werburgh's Road. I was getting the back gate tagged several times a week over summer. I certainly wouldn't ask for the path to be closed though. We knew we were "asking for it" when we moved there. It's sort of inevitable when you live so close to a footpath.

Good luck with the reopening of FP181. Sounds like the inconvenience of allowing access to a load of scrotes will be outweighed by the easier walk into Chorlton. And a quick tip - if you do have vandalism problems there's no way round it other than to lie in wait and catch the little buggers at it. I'm still chuckling after Sunday's encounter with Chorlton's most prolific tagger.

stephennewton
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:22 am

The riots were bad news, but nowhere near as bad as those in 80s. Here in Manchester it was mostly hype. But using the riots as an excuse to close footpaths in Chorlton makes you sound like a Lib Dem, Richard. If anything all the burglars were too busy breaking into the Arndale to bother with us.

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digger
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby digger » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:59 am

stephennewton wrote:£50k is a lot of money to remove a couple of fences and clear some undergrowth on a very short path. So where does that number come from?

Notwithstanding any conspiracy theories regarding LibDems and inflated quotes, part of the issue may be that it's the council doing the commissioning of the work. Tradespeople see the council coming and charge what they think they can get away with because it's "public money." As any fule no, there's no such thing as public money, only private money that's been hijacked to spend on public matters.

If councillors were forced to treat every pound spent as their own, we'd see a massive increase in value for money and consequent expansion of the bang for buck. How much do you think you'd be quoted if you sought to clear the path as a private individual, by phoning round gardeners or builders, etc? From the description of the work involved you'd probably struggle to get a quote over £5k, let alone 50.
Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit.

WingardiumLeviosa
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby WingardiumLeviosa » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:41 pm

stephennewton wrote:The conspirators are the Lib Dems, who have jumped on this very short path that affects very few people and created a populist NIMBY campaign. They are also good at misinformation (e.g. grossly exaggerated costs) and like to pretend this is a council proposal, so they can pretend it's an example of Labour waste.

I'm afraid you're not doing yourself and your cause much of a favour by peddling any kind of conspiracy, regardless of which direction it might be coming from. You'd be much better advised to stay with the facts. Speaking of which, what exactly are they? And what are the costs - not the grossly exaggerated ones utilised in any kind of conspiracy, but the real ones?

stephennewton wrote:I know lots of people are afraid of crime and nobody can guarantee any particular street will never suffer a burglary or other crime. But I certainly don't recognise the picture of rising crime. We've not suffered any incidents for a couple of years now and have never experienced graffiti or other vandalism.

Then you have been very lucky! The pathway behind the houses in my street has been closed a few years ago, and it wasn't one minute too soon, as we had dozens of burglaries originating that way over the years, not to mention drug dealing and drug use (piles of needles stacking up), more than a handful of muggings, etc. And that's mentioning the fact that everybody and their dog was using the pathway as a public toilet. Plus, fly tipping was rife.
On a couple of occasions I staved off potential burglars on a recce for a Christmas burglary in the middle of the night. One time I looked out of the window before going to bed, and there were a dozen armed police with body armour, etc, strategically placed all over the street obviously hunting for somebody trying to escape via the pathway. Living like this felt like being somewhat under siege. And no, I'm not a daily mail reader, and yes, this has all been very real.

Needless to say, I'm very grateful for the then Lib Dem local government to get going with the alley-gating scheme and see it through (after the previous Labour council first agreed to the alley-gating, but then made a U-turn and dragged a potential decision along for more than half a decade....).
In short: me and my neighbours are feeling considerably saver these days. The fact that there hasn't been a single incident since the closing of the pathway bears this out.
The Map is not the Territory.

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annie
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby annie » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:01 pm

WingardiumLeviosa wrote:In short: me and my neighbours are feeling considerably saver these days. The fact that there hasn't been a single incident since the closing of the pathway bears this out.


What are your facts for that Winnie? Can you provide me a breakdown of crime rates near your house before and after the gating? Stick to the facts, now.
:lol:
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

stephennewton
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Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Tue Sep 27, 2011 3:46 pm

Thanks for the support Annie. It's unfortunate that WingardiumLeviosa has had a hard time, but nobody should assume their personal experience to be typical. I understand that some other people live in high crime areas. And even though where I live has been crime free for a while, we still keep security under constant review, lock our doors and windows, leave lights on when we go out and so on.

You need to look at each case individually. Just as some footpaths have been abused, so others have not been.

As for sticking to the facts, I don't think any of us have kept our opinions to ourselves. But it is a fact that the council doesn't want to open the path and a fact that the Lib Dems claim that it does. To suggest, as WingardiumLeviosa does, that the Lib Dems would not fabricate a scare story to win a couple of cheap votes is remarkably naive.


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