Footpath 181

the place on the chorlton bulletin board for vegetable-spread related chatter and other matters...it's the first, the best and it's currently hack free.
Pearl
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:21 pm

Re: Footpath 181

Postby Pearl » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:40 am

Belper, I wouldn't want to downplay the number of local burglaries but I think it's worth pointing out that the survey you link to is a league table of places where people are "most likely to claim for theft on their home insurance". Not people reporting burglaries. Wouldn't we need the figures for people who actually have home insurance in different areas for it to have real meaning? I'd guess that the percentage is quite a lot higher in Chorlton than, say, Moss Side or Newall Green, where people are still vulnerable to crime but on average have less disposable income for things like house insurance.

With any survey reported in the newspapers, it's interesting to see who commissioned it: "Moneysupermarket.com said it produced the analysis to encourage households to buy adequate home insurance". Which they advertise on their website.

stephennewton
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
Contact:

Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:03 am

I don't think anybody's claimed burglary has been eradicated or mentioned 2010. More recent stats show burglary in Chorlton is far less common than a couple of years ago.

ash pole
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:05 pm

Re: Footpath 181

Postby ash pole » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:08 pm

And if the national burglary rate halved everywhere, somewhere would still have to come top of the table.

belperfury
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 am
Location: Chorlton

Re: Footpath 181

Postby belperfury » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:05 am

my point is that chorlton is a burglary hotspot - to the extent it topped the UK chart for burglary claims in 2010.

the survey was undertaken by moneysupermarket, but was based on a survey of 1,000,000 insurance applicants (not the usual l'oreal, 'we asked a handful of people until over half gave us the answer we were looking for' type. they weren't aiming to put chorlton at the top of the list, that's simply what the data indicated based on a number of claim per 1000 capita. i would guess that if you included any households who can't afford insurance (and probably live in deprived areas with increased crime), it's not going to take the numbers in the direction you'd hope.

somewhere would always have to sit at the top of that list. that place would be the UK's number one burglary hotspot however low the numbers.

while it does appear that chorlton is following the national trend in burglary reduction, in the latest info i can find it still sits at 2.5-3.0 times the national average for Jan-Dec 2012.

at the risk of repeating myself, alleygating is a proven technique of crime reduction as it removes secluded access to the rear of properties and also escape routes from the crime scene should the people who live there or the police arrive. the plan for reopening clearly involves the opposite of this as a byproduct of increasing access for the residents of anchorside close. this is why the gmp was against the reopening.

if anyone here has had the pleasure, like me and my wife, of being woken up in the middle of the night to people trying to break into your house, you'd perhaps appreciate how unsettling it is (albeit, i've never felt the need to find a gun, hobble to the bathroom and shoot through the door without checking where my wife is or giving a warning in these circumstances).

once opened, maybe local residents should put up posters to remind the local scallies that the footpath is only for the old, the infirm and any misguided recreation enthusiasts to use during the day and not fly tipping, graffiti, drink/drug taking or as an aid to burglary at night?

stephennewton
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
Contact:

Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:59 am

Footpath 181 is not an alley, but a brookside footpath.

But there is no evidence of alley gating reducing crime (we've asked to see this). And discussion here bears that out. The 2010 burglary peak occurred after alley gating was completed and despite it. We have also heard the criminal activity has fallen in streets that have not been alley gated but neighbour alley gated streets. In theory crime should have shifted to the non-alley gated streets.

What changed was the police attitude to burglary and their success in solving crimes.

stephennewton
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
Contact:

Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:31 pm

Sorry to go on, but if Chorlton continues to suffer more burglaries than comparible areas despite being so heavily alley gated, doesn't that imply alley gating is irrelevant?

belperfury
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 am
Location: Chorlton

Re: Footpath 181

Postby belperfury » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:53 pm

stephennewton wrote: But there is no evidence of alley gating reducing crime (we've asked to see this).


note sure who 'we' are or who you've asked to see this, but i would recommend this thing called google as a starting point. the evidence for alleygating in crime reduction is well documented and the schemes are supported by numerous police forces across the country on this basis.

here are just a few:
http://www.internetjournalofcriminology ... isited.pdf
http://www.crimesolutions.gov/ProgramDe ... spx?ID=135
http://www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/in ... 422981.pdf

this would suggest that burglary figures would be even higher in chorlton without the alleygating which has taken place. sadly, the scheme funded by manchester city council is on hold due to lack of funds. if only they had a spare £50k-£200k to get it going again...

ash pole
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:05 pm

Re: Footpath 181

Postby ash pole » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:54 pm

Why rely on the council though to fund these schemes? If they're such a great thing then why can't the owners get together and pay for it themselves - gates aren't particularly expensive, especially if the cost is shared amongst a couple of dozen households. And surely it would result in reduced insurance premiums.

Which is a good question: does it result in reduced insurance premiums?

stephennewton
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
Contact:

Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:03 pm

Will have to have a look at that. And yes it would be better if householders paid for it themselves.

Doesn't change fact that FP181 isn't an alley (so alley gating is a digression) and doesn't make access to any property easier than it is already.

Blonde
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:32 pm

Re: Footpath 181

Postby Blonde » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:38 pm

sadly, the scheme funded by manchester city council is on hold due to lack of funds. if only they had a spare £50k-£200k to get it going again

Maybe if the council would not have to spend that huge amount of money to reopen this redundant for more than 60 years footpath, they would have had the money to spend on more pressing and important matters such as keeping libraries open and giving more money to schools. Or even keeping the neighbourhoods safe. Lets think of that!

belperfury
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 11:15 am
Location: Chorlton

Re: Footpath 181

Postby belperfury » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:21 pm

stephennewton wrote:Doesn't change fact that FP181 isn't an alley (so alley gating is a digression) and doesn't make access to any property easier than it is already.


i got this through the letterbox today from the police and was reminded of this discussion. the first para says it all really.

footpaths and alleys are both types of walkways designed for pedestrians. in this case, both run behind the back of properties so the success of alleygating in crime prevention is entirely relevant to the reopening of FP181.

it actually beggars belief, given that you were primary campaigner to have the footpath reopened, that you don't believe it would provide easier access to any property. the entire route the council is being forced to reopen runs behind 5 or 6 houses where there is currently very limited access (hence the rather extravagant reopening costs estimated by the council). did you not know this?

perhaps this is because the main section you were really concerned about was the part which ran past the houses on your street? for some reason you didn't lobby to keep that section open. interesting principles...
Attachments
photo.JPG
photo.JPG (123.49 KiB) Viewed 2742 times

User avatar
annie
Posts: 4816
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:08 am
Location: Chorlton

Re: Footpath 181

Postby annie » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:37 pm

Here's a dead horse... go flog it.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

User avatar
Louise
Posts: 3350
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 9:58 pm

Re: Footpath 181

Postby Louise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:34 pm

It makes depressing reading. It conjures up a picture of people locked into their homes winter and summer afraid to leave the house even to sit in their own gardens. I know it's nice to have all the latest gadgets but is it worth it when you have to stay locked in your house? generally quaking with fear, in case some tow rag is planning on lightening your load.

stephennewton
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
Contact:

Re: Footpath 181

Postby stephennewton » Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:45 pm

Sadly they only know you're gadget free after they've broken in. Oh well.

The police would have us under curfew if they could, safely tucked away in gated communities. The reference to insecurities is funny. Perhaps they should offer confidence building courses.

Stevieboy
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:55 am
Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy

Re: Footpath 181

Postby Stevieboy » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:43 am



Return to “Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 18 guests