Closing down... opening up

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Louise
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby Louise » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:37 am

p7r wrote:
Dave32 wrote:It does seem sad at first sight, but you know, things move on.

I can change a lightbulb, a plug, tile the bathroom, wire a shower, give my car an oil change. Just like my dad could. But I won't darn a pair of socks like he would. I'd throw them away and buy a new pair.


Just as an aside, most modern appliances have plugs that can't be changed for safety reasons (the wire can't be pulled from it). Changing a plug therefore only remains a useful life skill if you have a lot of electronic devices made pre-1990s. That's why it's dying out.

As to tiling a bathroom, wiring a shower or giving a car an oil change, I'd like to argue against you doing that, for two reasons:

1. Your time as a non-expert is probably best spent doing something else. I know I could probably learn those things, but it would take me perhaps 3-4 hours research to work out how to put in a new shower and most of a weekend to do it. The quality of the finish would be average. I don't get much time off, and I'd rather an expert spent a morning doing it and for me to have my weekend to do other things, returning to find a new shower with a very high quality of finish installed.

2. Tradable assets and skills is the foundation of civilisation, and trading them is important for society to be healthy. In the same way I out-source my hunting and gathering to Morrisons or Asda, I can out-source other tasks to experts who get to earn a living.

If I walked into a restaurant and told the waiter to get lost as I'd be dealing with the spam - sorry directly myself in order to save a bit of money, people would think me both rude and slightly mad. So it is with trades such as electrics, plastering, tiling, plumbing, car mechanics, etc. By me learning to do those things I might become "self-sufficient", but I am taking away some sufficiency from another human being.

I have a whole bunch of skills that are commercially viable that I am glad others want to hire me for rather than learn themselves, much like most trades do. So when I go out to look for a person rather than do something myself, I don't consider it "lazy" or that I am somehow being clueless about the situation - I'm taking the money earned in my specialist niche area and spreading it to support the living of another person's specialist niche area. I certainly don't consider it a bad thing.


That works fine as long as you have disposable income to spend on hiring the experts. I used to be able to do basic things like fitting a new pendant light fitting, now that I can't I have to find someone else to do it and it's frustrating paying £25.00 to watch someone else do something I could have done myself in half the time a few years ago.

It's a pity that once your disposable income gets knocked down, we will all have to retire eventually, the experts you hired before will charge you the same as they did when you were better off. At that point knowing how to stick a tile back on the shower or being able to put up a shelf may become a survival skill.

I taught some basic DIY to women's groups in the 80's. Wiring a plug was a useful skill to have then, but I was surprised to realise that a lot of the women sat in the dark when a light bulb blew as they waited for their husband to come home to change it.

One thing I did with them, and later on with my own daughter was showing them how to use a power drill. Not so that they could construct their own furniture or whatever but I discovered my self as a young person that there is no better way of making a hole in a wall. It's a noisy thing and quite scary for a first time user but getting over that is a stepping stone to being able to do things for yourself, even if it's only hanging a picture on the wall or putting up a baby gate.

I also showed them how to put up a curtain rail and hang a blind and how to change the barrel in a Yale lock, being able to do that could amount to the difference between life and death for some women. Some of them had no idea what to do if a fuse tripped in the house, half the time they didn't even know where the fuse box was. Knowing where to turn the water off in an emergency was also useful. And for anyone with small children knowing how to unblock a toilet is much cheaper than calling a plumber, I did have to call out a professional drain unblocker once, it was usually Lego but on this occasion it was a large green Yoda who emerged from the pipe, Stuck he was, even the force couldn't get him out.

I think parents should teach their kids the basics before they leave home. They may not have the money to hire experts and if you send them on their way with an electric screwdriver at the very least they may thank you for it.

p7r
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby p7r » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:54 am

annie wrote:The learning of a skill should be excuse enough to do it, as it make you a more intelligent, self-sufficient individual. Pride in creating something rather than just handing over bits of paper to a person in ill-fitting overalls.


I create complex software every day of my working life, have learned project management and human resource skills, and am constantly learning new skills in my working life. As such, when it comes to the house I'm happy to leverage somebody else's learning: I'm learned out.

I see the value in learning, and I see the value in taking on a skill if you really want to. I resent the attitude that seems to creep into these conversations sometimes that by choosing not to plaster a wall myself I am being lazy, or that plasterers are somehow undeserving of their living because I could learn to do it myself.

Our grandparents probably knew how to skin a rabbit as well, but I think most of us these days would prefer a butcher do it for us. Does that make us lazy? No. We're doing things they could never dream of doing, and would have no comprehension of.

And when it comes to being creative, I'd rather write, draw, make music, produce a "fun" piece of software or cook something than tile a wall. I'm lucky that my job is quite creative already, but I don't see any problem with paying people to do something that would perhaps bore me in comparison.

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annie
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby annie » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:57 am

Louise wrote:That works fine as long as you have disposable income to spend on hiring the experts.


Quite, Louise. Often, I find I know more than "the experts". A guy came to replace my standard gas boiler with a combi and he took nearly three days to do the job. He didn't seal the vent pipe, used bad practice on the gas pipe, left a radiator leaking in my lounge (drenching my carpet)... what a nob. Got him thrown off the job. (No, I don't do gas appliances, I'm not "Gas Safe" - but it's the only thing I won't do.)
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby p7r » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:03 pm

Louise wrote:That works fine as long as you have disposable income to spend on hiring the experts.


Not being able to afford expertise is a good reason to learn to do it yourself. Absolutely. And having a rough idea how to do things (or specific ideas for the basics like the fuse box) as you suggest also good.

What I hate is being told I'm lazy because I have the money, am happy for a tradesman to work for it, and to spend my time doing other things where it's a relatively large job (retiling a bathroom, for example). I think that there is real value to the community in hiring people who can do those skills, beyond the value to me as well.

I'd never say somebody on limited income should spend £25 every time a fuse needs changing though - that isn't where I was heading with my point, sorry if it came across that way.

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annie
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby annie » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:04 pm

p7r wrote:I see the value in learning, and I see the value in taking on a skill if you really want to. I resent the attitude that seems to creep into these conversations sometimes that by choosing not to plaster a wall myself I am being lazy, or that plasterers are somehow undeserving of their living because I could learn to do it myself.


That's fine. That's your choice. It's your money and it's a free world.... but then don't "argue against me" being intelligent and capable enough to do as many things as I wish to do.

There is no such thing as being "learned out". There' is no upper limit to the amount of stuff your brain can hold. That's your choice.

As well as the skills I have already listed, I write, compose and record music, play five instruments and do graphic design. I don't put a limit on what I can or cannot do (although I'm shit at maths and athletics!)

It's all down to what we, as individuals, feel comfortable with.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

pauld
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby pauld » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:19 pm

Sometimes though, after you've researched a reliable tradesman, worked around the problem until they are available, waited in for them (costing you holiday), waited while they've done the work and gone thought the stress of wondering how much it's going to cost, it often just easier to do it yourself.

Pearl
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby Pearl » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:58 pm

Interesting though this is, to get back to the original topic, a notice has appeared on the shutters of Fresh and Fruity in the precinct to say that the landlord has taken back the premises for non-payment of rent. What a pity, I liked the people who worked there (who have presumably lost their jobs) and I liked the local veg.

And then on the way home I was surprised to see Kay's newsagents with lights blazing and a large Open sign. Hadn't expected that.

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skywalker
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby skywalker » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:20 pm

which one is kays?
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Reeves
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby Reeves » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:53 pm

Pearl was it open as an newsagent? I hope the original staff are back in there.

still_ill
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby still_ill » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:54 pm

Pearl wrote:...And then on the way home I was surprised to see Kay's newsagents with lights blazing and a large Open sign. Hadn't expected that.


This is good news.

I have to be honest, i use Tescos a lot, often without even thinking twice, but i thought it was a shame when this place stopped trading. They always seemed like nice people. Think i'll try and use them as much as possible if they're reopening properly.

Can't be easy for them, especially given how mark-ups tend to be so low on the stuff they'll sell most of.

Perhaps we can do our bit by putting the word about that it's open again and encouraging people to pop by.

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Fungus Mungus
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby Fungus Mungus » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:49 am

kays has definitely reoppened more or less exactly how it was before but with different people running it.

Also noticed that the new restaurant on corner of Brantingham road where Princess of Hearts used to be all lit up and looking ready to go - looked smart and modern inside - if the food's good i reckon it could do well.

Reeves
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby Reeves » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:37 am

Thanks Fungus, this is great news. The shops on Manchester Road do seem to be surviving the arrival of Tescos but as Still_ill says, we need to support them otherwise we will lose them.

The new restaurant is looking pretty good. I hope the food is good too.

Anybody know whats happening where Pascal opened Chopin? The last I heard a new licence application had gone in to the city council.

Pearl
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby Pearl » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:54 am

Reeves wrote:Anybody know whats happening where Pascal opened Chopin? The last I heard a new licence application had gone in to the city council.


Well, they were fitting it out and sweeping the front patio bit this week. New windows and door at the front I think. The sign still says Under Offer though

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skywalker
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby skywalker » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:09 am

i noticed another fking chicken place that isn't open yet next to that garden centre that only seems to be open in December
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fiz67
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Re: Closing down... opening up

Postby fiz67 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:15 pm

Pearl wrote:Interesting though this is, to get back to the original topic, a notice has appeared on the shutters of Fresh and Fruity in the precinct to say that the landlord has taken back the premises for non-payment of rent. What a pity, I liked the people who worked there (who have presumably lost their jobs) and I liked the local veg.

And then on the way home I was surprised to see Kay's newsagents with lights blazing and a large Open sign. Hadn't expected that.

fresh and fruity have done this before - known for bumping and restarting the company


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