Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

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ash pole
Posts: 437
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:05 pm

Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby ash pole » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:17 pm

I live in the Meadow Court flats down the bottom of Hackness Road. There's a bit of unused land round the back of some garages, like this:-

http://binged.it/GIcwi2 (where the red car is in the middle).

There's a proposal to sell this for £70,000 for development. As shareholders in the residents' association all the flat owners would share in the proceeds.

Is this a good price? I'm just a little concerned as it's the management company that is proposing to purchase this and I don't know if they're opened it to other offers. Also they sent the acceptance forms with a scary letter saying that the roofs will all need replacing within 5 years at a cost of over 100k.

Sarah_B
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Location: Chorlton

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby Sarah_B » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:40 pm

Sorry no good with actual land values however if I were you I would be asking some questions.

If they sell this land for £70k how much will you each actually receive? Will they deduct "their costs" from the £70k?

The fact you will be entitled to the proceeds implies to me (but I could be wrong) that you own this land or at least have a strong say in the matter. If the amount you will receive is only a small amount you may actually prefer to say no and keep the car park.

Are there any restrictions in terms of the height of proposed new flats which I'm sure will be built there if you decide to sell? Owners currently facing the car park many not wish to be overlooked, for example, by a five storey apartment block.

If the amount you will all receive is relatively small you may prefer to take a democratic decision to keep everything as it is. Not sure if you have the right to object like this but just a thought as opposed to selling the land for £70k finding out these mysterious costs turn up leaving net proceeds of only £35k.
Last edited by Sarah_B on Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sarah_B
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Location: Chorlton

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby Sarah_B » Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:45 pm

Regarding the roofs ask for details as to where they got the £100k from. How many quotes did they obtain?

Find out what they think needs replacing, obtain all the details, then ring some roofers yourself to get an idea of what the cost would be.

It really sounds like they are trying to frighten you all into selling this land.

Also I hope each year somebody goes through your management company's accounts (which you are entitled to do) for your blocks of flats reviewing the expenditure very closely.

blenkinsop
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby blenkinsop » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:31 pm

£70k seems a bargain, even for the tiniest development. If you're talking a block of flats, you can safely use a multiple of 10 (ie. £700k). Someone's taking the piss here, unless they're going to build more garages for rent!

The value of land is determined by it's development potential, with planning consent or an indication that a planning application will be successful.

You need to find out what the proposed development will be, and then make a judgement on the value of the land.

A friend sold a premises with car park in Walkden (!) for over £1m, subsequently developed into a large block of flats (over 10 years ago).

Ignore the guff about 'future' roof repairs.

angmc
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:01 pm

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby angmc » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:06 pm

I live at Meadow Court too and received the letter today. I really did not like their scare tactics with regards to the roof. Who's to know if the roofs will need doing in 5 years, they say themselves that they are in a reasonable condition at the moment so (going by their figures) if we waited 8 years instead of 5 there would be enough money in the coffers to do it anyway...if indeed it needing doing! Also I think the £70K they're proposing to sell it for is ridiculously low and the individual flats would see no real benefit from it just a lot of upheaval and uncertainty as to what the land was going to be used for. I'm definitely saying NO!

ash pole
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby ash pole » Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:31 pm

Way more answers than I was expecting! Thanks everyone. A bit more information-

The legal structure is that each flat (96 flats in total) owns an equal share in the residents' association company which owns the freehold of the whole site, which then leases the flats to us. So effectively we own it, we employ the management company, and any proceeds from the sale of the land are due to us. We have a Board made up of residents, but I don't know them. I have few complaints about the management company, the fees they charge seem reasonable and the buildings insurance isn't a rip-off. The resolution to be put to an EGM in November is twofold:

1. To authorise the Board to enter into an option to sell the land ... at a price of £70,000.
2. To place the proceeds of the sale of the land (less tax) to the reserves of the company.

About 11/12 years ago we went through a similar process, the sale was agreed for about 120k subject to planning permission for flats. The permission wasn't granted, and the sale didn't go ahead. This was a sale to the management company, or at least the guy who owns the management company. I do remember back then a letter that went around from him talking about this land being used by drug users (in the 11/12 years since I have never seen anything of the sort).

These are some extracts from the letter we received today:

"we advise that an offer has been made to purchase the piece of land at the rear of the Hackness Road garages, subject to planning permission for one bungalow. This was the subject of a possible sale previously which fell through due to Planning Permission being declined. The price being offered is £70,000, which for those owners who were involved several years ago, is substantially less than was previously offered.

"The primary reason for this is the fact that the previous offer was on the basis of planning permission for a block of six self-contained flats whereas this is one bungalow; and secondly, the current state of the residential property market."

I can see the point about the bungalow, but now I'm wondering what's to stop this turning into a block of six "bungalows". And has the residential property market been that poor in Chorlton? It doesn't state anywhere in the current correspondence who the offer has come from now I read it properly, maybe it isn't actually from the management company, I just assumed it was as this is where it came from last time. I'll email them tomorrow and ask. Along with a few more questions I think!

angmc
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby angmc » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:28 pm

ash pole wrote:These are some extracts from the letter we received today:

"we advise that an offer has been made to purchase the piece of land at the rear of the Hackness Road garages, subject to planning permission for one bungalow. This was the subject of a possible sale previously which fell through due to Planning Permission being declined. The price being offered is £70,000, which for those owners who were involved several years ago, is substantially less than was previously offered.

"The primary reason for this is the fact that the previous offer was on the basis of planning permission for a block of six self-contained flats whereas this is one bungalow; and secondly, the current state of the residential property market."


Well that's interesting, you seem to have got a different letter to me, none of this was mentioned in my letter, mine starts...

"Further to our earlier circular regarding the possible sale of the land behind the Hackness Road garages, we now enclose the formal Notice of Extraordinary General Meeting together with the Proxy Form" then it goes on to mention about the two resolutions and the business about the roofs but nothing about an offer being made or the bungalow etc. very strange!

If the land is sold each flat would would receive £729 but even that's before the deduction for the roof repairs so you'd be looking at about £260 each but I doubt very much we'd actually get our hands on it!

Actually I don't have any gripes with the management company either but I just can't see any benefit to the owners/residents if this sale does go ahead.

ash pole
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby ash pole » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:55 am

angmc wrote:Well that's interesting, you seem to have got a different letter to me, none of this was mentioned in my letter, mine starts...


You're right, sorry. I was quoting from the letter we received in April that started the ball rolling. We wouldn't see any cash in this deal the proceeds would just go into the repair fund. No bad thing, should mean lower service charge increases in future.

KingNailer
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby KingNailer » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:16 am

i used to live in meadow court, we had letter about same sale of land back in 2001, never materialised

???
Posts: 145
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby ??? » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:30 am

Land value completely depends on what could be put on it. For 1 bungalow on there it is probably worth about £70,000 if you put 10 apartments on it will be worth substantially more.

If it is sold subject to planning for 1 bungalow I would insist that a claw back provision is put into the sale documents whereby if the purchaser obtains planning consent for a higher value the previous owner is entitled to 50% of the uplift in value.

If I were you I would club together with the other residents to get a formal valuation done by an independent party. Shouldn't cost more than £2,000 in total.

Stevieboy
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Location: Chorlton-cum-Hardy

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby Stevieboy » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:05 am

Doesn't your monthly service charge include a percentage that goes in to a sinking fund? I'd have thought the funds needed to replace the roofs would come from this.
I see the roofs are flat. It's recommended that flat roofs are replaced every X years - depending on construction it could be every 20 years. This might be where they have come up with the "roofs will all need replacing within 5 years ".

Sarah_B
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Location: Chorlton

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby Sarah_B » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:21 pm

angmc wrote: .... I just can't see any benefit to the owners/residents if this sale does go ahead.


From what I've read from what you've both said I would agree. If I lived there, I would not agree to the sale. The benefit is a short term decrease in service charges, but not that much of a decrease compared to:

a.) the loss of the car parking area

b.) possible decrease in the value of your properties

c.) the building of something unsightly. Who knows if it will be one bungalow that is built. Could be a multi-storey apartment block.

I would simply vote against the sale .... but that's just my opinion and I know I wasn't asked but anyway, I'm far too opinionated for my own good sometimes.

lister
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby lister » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:02 pm

How are they allowed to get rid of the car parking spaces? It already looks pretty dire around there!

stephennewton
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Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
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Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby stephennewton » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:45 pm

You should contact the Leasehold Advisory Service at http://www.lease-advice.org/
They are government funded and provide free legal advice to leaseholders. They are very good.

Sarah_B
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Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:57 pm
Location: Chorlton

Re: Anyone good with land values in Chorlton?

Postby Sarah_B » Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:14 pm

What's the latest with this .... have you voted on this yet?


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