New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

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annie
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Location: Chorlton

Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby annie » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:08 pm

ash pole wrote:
still_ill wrote:Taking the Four Banks as the pedestrian centre of Chorlton, though in terms of land area it's probably nowhere near there, the propsed site at Hough End is around 900 yards further away than the current centre.


Cobblers.



Totally.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

FurFoxAche
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby FurFoxAche » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:48 pm

I'm sure the people who live near hough end will be pleased to have the facility on their doorstep, rather than having to traipse into chorlton every time they want to use the gym.

StePee
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby StePee » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:50 pm

still_ill wrote:
annie wrote:Chorlton has a local centre that can be used by everyone, is bang in the middle of Chorlton, is immediately accessible by bus, and is well-served by local shops.

This Hough End complex is miles away...


Last time i checked, Chorlton Leisure Centre was on the outskirts of Chorlton, about 300 yards up the street and it would be classed as Whalley Range, Firswood, or even Old Trafford depending on which side of the road it was on.


Check this: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/16113/action_plan Page 6.

still_ill
Posts: 214
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby still_ill » Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:58 pm

annie wrote:
ash pole wrote:
still_ill wrote:Taking the Four Banks as the pedestrian centre of Chorlton, though in terms of land area it's probably nowhere near there, the propsed site at Hough End is around 900 yards further away than the current centre.

Cobblers.

Totally.


Which part of my fact-based post are you disagreeing with?

lister
Posts: 154
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:56 pm

Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby lister » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:14 pm

Walking

Four banks to current facility - 0.30 miles

Four banks to proposed facility - 1.30 miles

Average walking speed - 3 miles/hr

Time to existing facility - 6 minutes
Time to proposed facility - 26 minutes

Average exercise session (including washing/dressing) - 60 minutes

Current time expenditure - 72 minutes
Proposed time expenditure - 112 minutes

An increase of 40 minutes, which in real terms would likely make exercise in a local facility nonviable for current users.

ash pole
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby ash pole » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:05 am

still_ill wrote:Which part of my fact-based post are you disagreeing with?


This part.

still_ill wrote:Taking the Four Banks as the pedestrian centre of Chorlton, though in terms of land area it's probably nowhere near there, the propsed site at Hough End is around 900 yards further away than the current centre.

ladyheather
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby ladyheather » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:10 pm

I imagine schools will start charging for transport to the new swimming pool, which will mean parents have to pay.

alr1970
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby alr1970 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:51 pm

StePee wrote:Grounds for objection need to be relevant to the planning process, some good examples are listed here by way of illustration:

http://www.richmond.gov.uk/what_is_a_valid_objection_to_a_planning_application

I take the view that the proposal is contrary to the Council's own policies as set out in South Manchester Strategic Regeneration Framework http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/500108/south_manchester_regeneration/2418/south_manchester_strategic_regeneration_framework

See the framework here: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/download_info.php?fileID=7416
And the implementation framework here: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/7422/south_manchester_srf_implementation_plan

It also makes a mockery of Chorlton District Centre Action Plan 2010-2020:
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/16113/action_plan

I also reckon there's a massive flaw in their Travel - Transport Survey.
Amongst the supporting documents at: http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=MY0FRYBC06N00
In which, it's claimed that the site is well served by major bus routes. It is; just not ones from Chorlton or Withington, so changing busses to get there would make the journey prohibitively complex (unless you live in Wythenshawe, Northenden, City Centre etc)
It's clear from reading that section too, that the stops are barely within the maximum distance of the entrance to constitute serving it.
A similar issue relates to the Metrolink; "within 400m", rather than our existing Leisure Centre which is aprox half of that distance from the Chorlton Met stop.

Consequently, I reckon their estimates of vehicular traffic will be far short of the mark, since many of those used to using the existing facility will choose to drive, rather than add about an hour to their round trip.
Their survey acknowledges the extra traffic would overload the existing junction; needing it to be changed to two T junctions, rather than an X: I think it's a fair assertion that the extra traffic (given their worthless bus routes & a long walk to the tram) would cause significant disruption on the A5103 Princess Parkway.

If anyone can see other relevant grounds for objection please speak up. Soon!

Objections need to be SUBMITTED BY 24th JAN.


I quite agree, but I'm rather busy right now. Can you suggest a quick paragraph that I can paste into an objection beofre Friday? I know it's not quite as powerful as individual wording, but it would add to the numbers.

"Miss! Miss! He's copying me!"

StePee
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby StePee » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:49 pm

I've taken the angle, that since it's supposed to be replacement for the existing Chorlton facility in the District Centre, its proposed location makes it unsuitable because:
It is not as well serviced by public transport as the proposal makes out, with bus & Metro stops at least 400m away.
This means:
It adds about an hour to round trip times by public transport, so residents of central Chorlton will either; not bother going, or drive there.
Because their traffic forecasts rely on the fib that there are good local transport links, it is invalid, and will cause more traffic on routes that are already heavily congested (against environmental targets, and detrimental to the area).
Disabled, infirm, or those with small children will not be able to get there, other than by car (excluding minority groups).
Taking the Leisure Centre away from the District Centre is detrimental to the local experience, and to local traders and other leisure offerings (Against Council policy; South Mcr Strategic Regeneration Framework, Chorlton District Centre Action Plan 2010-2020, Local Transport Policy)
That the Council, in their "Feedback from December's information-sharing exercise" concede that the proposal does not offer adequate facilities (ie Sports Hall/ qty of Squash Courts etc) for those it's replacing, but that residents can travel around the region (to schools etc) (more traffic/ obstacles to use) rather than continue to benefit from a community-based resource, which could be improved/ rebuilt)
They also concede in the last paragraph of that page, that the centres of Chorlton & Withington are losing facilities, and despite this, on the basis of a misleading claim of the transport links of a field by a very busy A-Road is somehow a "good all-round solution".

I'm fairly sure the above are relevant planning objections; if the 'applicant' wasn't 'The Council', the Planning Dept also 'The Council', and the policies that are being casually cast aside 'The Council's', I'd be a little more confident!

ladyheather
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby ladyheather » Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:12 pm

Also, the land on which the intended building will go is Council owned.

Pearl
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Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby Pearl » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:02 pm

Well I've sent a brief response, direct to the planning dept who were indeed very helpful when I contacted them.

Thanks for your information on what is worth mentioning, StePee (and how are the crutches going btw?)

I concentrated on the suggestion that by moving facilities away from so-called district centres, the proposal goes against the Council's main strategic policies in terms of traffic, environment, viability of district centres, health and wellbeing, and the inclusion of young, elderly and disabled people.

Can't say I feel optimistic at this stage but since I have failed to get involved in any campaign, let alone start one, it felt better than doing nothing at all.

Rob
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:34 am
Location: Chorlton

Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby Rob » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:15 am

still_ill wrote:
annie wrote:Chorlton has a local centre that can be used by everyone, is bang in the middle of Chorlton, is immediately accessible by bus, and is well-served by local shops.

This Hough End complex is miles away...


Last time i checked, Chorlton Leisure Centre was on the outskirts of Chorlton, about 300 yards up the street and it would be classed as Whalley Range, Firswood, or even Old Trafford depending on which side of the road it was on.

Taking the Four Banks as the pedestrian centre of Chorlton, though in terms of land area it's probably nowhere near there, the propsed site at Hough End is around 900 yards further away than the current centre.


Not sure how good your grasp of local geography is, but maybe this map will help you.

http://bit.ly/1jBnDrx

Feel free to try the measuring tool, I think you'll find 900 yards is something of an mis-under-estimation. If I've time I might try measuring the population within, say, a 15 minute walk of each location. Though given there's a huge field next to one of them I've a feeling I know which is going to be the biggest.

StePee
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby StePee » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:51 am

Thanks Pearl, I've managed to discard the crutches since the weekend, and am walking with a badass hip-op gangsta limp for a while. x

Pearl
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Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:21 pm

Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby Pearl » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:46 pm

Glad to hear it, StePee. Hope the priority seats are available to you on any tram trips you may make.

If you ever need to know, Leki is the stylish walking stick of choice for the cool, discerning, mobility-impaired person. They have suspension and convertible tips for pavement or ice, as well as giving the chance to pose as someone who has maybe had a skiing accident rather than (in my case) something more prosaic.

still_ill
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:01 am

Re: New leisure centre at Hough End: More consultation

Postby still_ill » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:25 pm

Rob wrote:Not sure how good your grasp of local geography is, but maybe this map will help you.

http://bit.ly/1jBnDrx

Feel free to try the measuring tool, I think you'll find 900 yards is something of an mis-under-estimation. If I've time I might try measuring the population within, say, a 15 minute walk of each location. Though given there's a huge field next to one of them I've a feeling I know which is going to be the biggest.


Not sure i trust your mapping tool. I've used two others, both have the leisure centre around 0.45 miles from the Four Banks. Both have the prospective new site a mile from the same starting point, quicking walking route, obviously. Half a mile was around 900 yards last time i checked.

Even using your innacurate measurements, surely people who want to get or keep fit are prepared to walk another mile? What this actually comes down to is snobbery, people from Chorlton thinking Chorlton starts at the Barbican and ends at Beech Road, and them turning their noses up at the possibility of having to slum it with some non-vegans.


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