Beer....

the place on the chorlton bulletin board for vegetable-spread related chatter and other matters...it's the first, the best and it's currently hack free.
Clib
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Beer....

Postby Clib » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:10 am

Next time I am in Pi I will! I didn't buy it though. I feel it's the same at Font, the Beagle and Port Street. Craft bars are adding a big premium for keg beers. I may end up siding with CAMRA! :-) Very neutral at the moment, I can see value in both sides of the debate.

MikeMarcus
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby MikeMarcus » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:34 am

FYI on my costs spreadsheet I calculate CO2 to be 1.5 pence per pint. All other costs remain the same or less when comparing keg to cask.

Clib
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Beer....

Postby Clib » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:46 am

Maybe there's an attempt being made to create a new class of beer consumer that is prepared to pay twice the going rate? If so, a co-operative may be in a strong position to provide quality craft beer at acceptable prices with acceptable margins, which is the policy of the Unicorn with regard to quality/ethical foods. Whatever you think of it.

MikeMarcus
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby MikeMarcus » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:50 am

Clib: want to get involved?

Clib
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Beer....

Postby Clib » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:10 pm

Yes, see you on the 11th.
Phil

MikeMarcus
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby MikeMarcus » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:28 pm

Aha! I didn't know your username :-)

stephennewton
Posts: 152
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: Anchorside Close, M21 8AR
Contact:

Re: Beer....

Postby stephennewton » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:31 pm

Clib wrote:One question, why is keg beer so much more expensive...

The big brewers started putting their ales into keg in the 1960s and 70s (when lager held a very small market share) purely to save money. MikeMarcus has pointed out that cask beers require care and attention; keg created an opportunity to deskill. The beers were awful, there was much consumer resistance, the Campaign for Real Ale took off and so on.

I was working in the industry around the time 'smoothkeg' was being introduced in the 1990s. This is closer to cask, but still pretty awful. Again the motivation on the part of brewers was to save money. But brewers knew that if they passed on any cost saving to the consumer, it would send the wrong signal. So charging a little bit more is not so much about greed. A premium price suggests a superior product to the ignorant consumer, who thinks they're paying a little bit extra for something a little bit better.

Sadly, most beer drinkers know very little about beer and many are very happy to drink something served extra cold, like a cheap lager, so they can't really taste it.

User avatar
sky blue
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:35 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby sky blue » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:35 pm

It would be a shame if discerning beer drinkers start falling out over "real ale v craft beer". I'm a big fan of quality beer, in the case of traditional British beers that means real ale, but I also like great European beers and I would rather drink a great lager than a poor real ale. Or altbier, kolsch, trappist ales, etc. Not fruit beers though, they are shite.

Clib
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Beer....

Postby Clib » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:27 pm

stephennewton wrote:
Clib wrote:One question, why is keg beer so much more expensive...

But brewers knew that if they passed on any cost saving to the consumer, it would send the wrong signal. So charging a little bit more is not so much about greed. A premium price suggests a superior product to the ignorant consumer, who thinks they're paying a little bit extra for something a little bit better.


Not so much about greed? What is the purpose of the deception then?!

And, with the new craft keg beer thing, we are seeing a big increase in price. If it is justified by cost and quality, fine. But Mike says it's not a cost issue. And you can buy cask Jaipur in the Hillary for around £3 a pint, whereas the keg version in Pi is £5. And that seems fairly typical, from what I have seen.

Is that greed?

MikeMarcus
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby MikeMarcus » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:59 pm

sky blue wrote:Not fruit beers though, they are shite.


Allow me to challenge your assumption on fruit beers? Cantillon do amazing things with grapes (St Lamvinus, Vigneronne, Zwanze 2011), Mikelker does amazing things with currants and cranberries (spontancranberry, etc). Both can be found at the Beagle. One of the best beers I ever had was bilberry flavoured. I really want to make a barrel aged sour beer flavoured with sea buckthorn.

(Have you noticed I'm on about Cantillon all the time? I think they're one of the best and most exciting breweries in the world)

I absolutely hate those 'smooth' kegged ales! John Smith's/Tetleys is vile. Does that stuff have gelling agents in it? Like Xanthan gum or something?

User avatar
sky blue
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:35 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby sky blue » Thu Jan 02, 2014 10:59 pm

I wasn't being particularly serious about fruit beers. I was just making a point that my personal opinion isn't necessarily an actual fact. I don't like fruit beer but loads of people do, it's just a matter of taste.

MikeMarcus
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby MikeMarcus » Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:09 pm

I definitely don't like sweet fruit beers. Some though are brutally dry and really complex.

Clib
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:41 am

Re: Beer....

Postby Clib » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:00 pm


MikeMarcus
Posts: 29
Joined: Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:50 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby MikeMarcus » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:53 pm

I found out about these guys yesterday coincidentally. It's great to see there are more people with the same plan.

StePee
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:55 pm

Re: Beer....

Postby StePee » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:54 am

Domestic keg beers being pricier than their cask equivalent is exactly the opposite of what you'd expect to find; for the very reasons (of consistency) you stated earlier: So much cask product gets wasted or otherwise 'written down', compared to the longevity and reliability of the 'craft keg' delivery, I don't see how this doesn't need to end up reflected in the price of pulled beers.
To it's merit; some of the more niche keg product can be on for weeks on end at Beagle, or Font, and can also be moved between outlets to shift it too. During the weeks after IMBC we got a good variety of leftovers (for want of a less prejorative term) from the festival served at Beagle.
I'm curious about getting involved in this, as I'm a fairly experienced 'punter' of this type of product, but my observations of micro production are that it's damn hard work; about as gentrified as farming or the building trade. One of our local brewers reckons "you never see a fat brewer", another observation I've made at MTBs is that their wives often have well paid jobs!


Return to “Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests