How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

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How should we dispose of Tories?

Evisceration
0
No votes
Public hanging
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No votes
Cut the brake lines
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No votes
"Discovered burglary"
0
No votes
Polonium poisoning
0
No votes
At the ballot box in 2015, 2020, 2025 and 2030.
5
100%
 
Total votes: 5

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annie
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby annie » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:30 pm

TossPot wrote:I know there aren't many Socialist paradises left, but Cuba is just about hanging on in there. Venezuela too, albeit a sizeable slice of the population is rebelling. Then of course there's the lovely Kim whatever-h'es-called's patch. You won't have to rub shoulders with any of us Tories there.


That's the other thing I forgot to mention about Tories. They have little grasp of the political spectrum, and firmly believe that anyone who does not follow their selfish me, me, me ,me agenda is probably a communist.

In order to help these poor, mentally challenged people, here's the definitions for future reference, so they don't look so fvcking stupid all the time.

Communism: Communists believe that capitalist system is damaging to interests of masses, and that workers must unite and overturn it by revolutionary means. Communists also believe in the state ownership of all land, natural resources and industry.

Socialism: Socialists are motivated by the desire to improve quality of life for all members of society. They believe in a political system characterised by strong state direction in political and economic policy. Another key idea is redistribution of resources to redress inequalities inherent in free-market economy.

I hope that makes things a little clearer :roll:
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

TossPot
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby TossPot » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:29 pm

annie wrote:Socialism: Socialists are motivated by the desire to improve quality of life for all members of society.



Oh well you've clearly aced the argument with that definition. Now I know you're all motivated by goodness I can clearly avery my eyes from the disastrous consequences that result from Socialism, every time (Cue the: "Ah, but that wasn't proper Socialism. My Socialism will be different" argument).

Sorry, but quibbling over the definitions of Socialism / Marxist-Leninism / Communism is like arguing about what's the nicest flavour of dog shit. Save it for party meetings when the Revolutionary Cholton Popular Front fall out with the splitters in the Popular Revoluntionary Front of Chorlton.

Rather than trying to define Socialism by the supposed motivation of its adherents, let's try and define it by empirical experience:

Economic incompetence, financial mismanagement, failure, poverty, an inabilty to get on with the neighbours. An approach based on jealousy, spite and bitterness. When it comes to the crunch just about everyone would prefer to part company from it and not be troubled with it again.

It's not hard to see why you feel a strong personal affinity.
'Drive-by insult merchant'

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annie
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby annie » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:01 pm

TossPot wrote: When it comes to the crunch just about everyone would prefer to part company from it and not be troubled with it again.


Nope... just you and your trough-snuffling, money-grabbing, tax-dodging, wealth-diverting social engineering shithead Tory mates... The Tory scum couldn't even win an election properly after an unpopular moron like Gordon Brown. The LibDems are the ultimate idiots in all this. Vote Libdem, get Tory... and after 2015 they'll be consigned to the political wilderness for 30 years again for betraying everything their voters wanted.

Nothing like the rank smell of right-winger, roasting gently on a spit, come 2015

:lol:
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

TossPot
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:44 pm

Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby TossPot » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:17 pm

annie wrote:Nothing like the rank smell of right-winger, roasting gently on a spit, come 2015


You should probably stick to salad and take a bit more exercise.
'Drive-by insult merchant'

MikeMarcus
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby MikeMarcus » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:49 pm

How about a poll option for "bring down fiat currency by investing in bitcoin"?

TossPot wrote:I know there aren't many Socialist paradises left, but Cuba is just about hanging on in there. Venezuela too, albeit a sizeable slice of the population is rebelling. Then of course there's the lovely Kim whatever-h'es-called's patch. You won't have to rub shoulders with any of us Tories there.


I assume that your cherry-picking Cuba and Venezuela over Sweden and Norway was simply an oversight? :-)

And course your neglect to mention that flagship of radical individualism, the USA and its staggering rate of violent crime was because you ran out of typing space?

ash pole
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby ash pole » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Don't really see what the crime rate in the USA has to do with this discussion.

I'm more and more leaning towards voting "Tory", purely because I don't like people telling me what not to do.

TossPot
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby TossPot » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:18 pm

MikeMarcus wrote:
TossPot wrote:I know there aren't many Socialist paradises left, but Cuba is just about hanging on in there. Venezuela too, albeit a sizeable slice of the population is rebelling. Then of course there's the lovely Kim whatever-h'es-called's patch. You won't have to rub shoulders with any of us Tories there.


I assume that your cherry-picking Cuba and Venezuela over Sweden and Norway was simply an oversight? :-)

And course your neglect to mention that flagship of radical individualism, the USA and its staggering rate of violent crime was because you ran out of typing space?


Eh?

I chose Cuba and Venezuela as examples of Socialist states because they are both governed by Socialists. Sweden is governed by a centre-right coalition. Norway is governed by a centre-left coalition.

I didn't mention the USA because it is not a Socialist state. Whatever its problems, it still seems to be the country that much of the world aspires to live in.

Have you perhaps got Ergot in your malt?
'Drive-by insult merchant'

blenkinsop
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby blenkinsop » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:57 pm

TossPot wrote:
MikeMarcus wrote:
TossPot wrote:I know there aren't many Socialist paradises left, but Cuba is just about hanging on in there. Venezuela too, albeit a sizeable slice of the population is rebelling. Then of course there's the lovely Kim whatever-h'es-called's patch. You won't have to rub shoulders with any of us Tories there.


I assume that your cherry-picking Cuba and Venezuela over Sweden and Norway was simply an oversight? :-)

And course your neglect to mention that flagship of radical individualism, the USA and its staggering rate of violent crime was because you ran out of typing space?


Eh?

I chose Cuba and Venezuela as examples of Socialist states because they are both governed by Socialists. Sweden is governed by a centre-right coalition. Norway is governed by a centre-left coalition.

I didn't mention the USA because it is not a Socialist state. Whatever its problems, it still seems to be the country that much of the world aspires to live in.

Have you perhaps got Ergot in your malt?


Eh? Indeed. Too much hoppy craft beer, can addle the brain.

For the avoidance of doubt, Norway and Sweden are effectively both governed by CONSERVATIVES.

The Nordic countries are rated as the best governed in the world, with total transparency as the norm.

Populations of only 5.1m and 9.6m respectively, large land masses, and an abundance of natural resources.

Models to be copied across the world (if you have the natural resources, and can exploit them effectively).

JB
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Location: Chorlton

Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby JB » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:01 am

An addendum to the discussion....not part of the thread.

I am always surprised at the tone and rhetoric which I hear from Manchester people given our grand surroundings of the past and the location we call our home. The so called Labour and Tory debate. We need both strands for democracy of course, however one is certainly operating on the blindside than others in this region.

Manchester was and should be a global city; it should free individuals and their ideas to generate jobs, wealth and well being for its population like it use to. Surely, it is good to stand on your own two feet. And I guess we are only here due to our fore-fathers being seduced by the push and pull factors of rural life versus industrial towns. They wanted to escape the feudal semi-unionised busy-bodies and forced labour of rural life for a more commercial and progressive way of life of free-enterprise and business. I suppose if this is not ones cup of tea then rural life and its chiefdoms are only 20miles from any city developments, where the co-operative/union/labour model of decision my committee is better suited, having been forced to share resources due to lack of funds.

How do we think the grand victorians buildings, global influence of the industrial revolution and the ship canal were spawned in our history; the reminders are all round us. From real tennis courts in Salford to the palace of the Manchester Town Hall. Manchester equal Confidence. I certainly believed this at school but then Tax also meant theft so take your choice!

The victorian projects did not get here with weak decision making, bovine politics, soft crony tactics led by negative thinking and taxing people til they flee the country; or give up on their ideas all together. I naively believe Manchester was created through brave individuals, sick of rural politics, who wanted to stand out of from the crowd because of their beliefs in the greater good. And they genuinely thought of others, in terms of developing the region, despite being gang-pressed to thinking their ideas would fail; having funded it all themselves. They had a single minded vision for growth and prosperity. This is old money prosperity not Mr Brown engineered hedge fund prosperity of recent years. Labour sold the city and briton to a few private greedy brokers and Blair sold the Lords to his mates. Its hard to see what is left for either party to win a majority, other than proper politics of hard work and no short cuts. i.e build british cities and their people so they can compete in the global markets.

In comparison here in Manchester, our response is, no Tesco in my backyard and the lovely Mr Flowers snapping the headlines. I ought to do a thesis on the business development strategy of the COOP and Manchester United plc 1988-2008. Only to see how one became a world respected brand and symbol for nurturing talent, and the other proud to put their name on a side of a hearse.

NB - I am an observer of life, don’t mean to offend nor lecture anyone with my views. I wanted to add to the debate and validate my thoughts having read the headline, so please go easy on me with the flame-mail.

TossPot
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Re: How should we dispose of the Tories (and UKIP)?

Postby TossPot » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:48 pm

Good post JB. If instead the Victorians had decided to nationalise and subsidise dying industries, rather than forge ahead and develop new ones, I wonder what the legacy would have been then. Income tax rates back then were generally between 1 and 5% (it had been set at a shockingly high 10% during the Napoleonic wars). Trade restrictions were swept away, and many of the products of the resulting prosperity are still with us today. Even Liverpool thrived.

Anyway, it's a Tory stereotype that we look back on the Victorian age through rose tinted glasses, and I wasn't around at the time so let's pick another era when I was. Sadly this is more of a dystopian portrait.

In contrast to the prosperity wreaked by evil Victorian capitalists, by the 1970s, right-thinking and fair people had realised that it's far better when politicians and trade unions run businesses for us. Pretty much everything had therefore been nationalised, well except for food, as when people start to starve they tend to get really pissed off. No nasty profit motive any more. Public subsidy was the name of the game. The unions pretty much dictated what got made, when (answer, not much, British productivity was dire and our products were crap). The cost of funding the losses of crap businesses making crap products, inefficiently (Austin Allegro anyone?) was a huge strain on the public purse. Tax rates peaked at 95%; remember George Harrison's 'Tax Man': "Let me tell you how it will be, There's one for you, nineteen for me, " Of course the Beatles, Stones and the Who had all wisely fecked off elsewhere to avoid this, taking their money with them. So had many entrepreneurs and investors. Callaghan ran out of things to tax and had to go to the IMF for a bail-out.

The miners switched the electricity off at will, putting industry on a three day week. Fortunately this mattered less than it should as the factories would have probably been on strike in any event, and anyway, who wanted their crappy output? The GPO ran the telephone network. It could take two years on a wait list before you got a phone. Even then some of us had to share a 'party line' with neighbours rather than have a line of our own. Foreigners understandably didn't want our products, which meant little foreign exchange revenue, and exchange control was used to prevent capital flight. Special permission was needed to take more than £50 out of the country, even for a family holiday (passports had a section for banks to stamp to show you'd been issued with the money). Oh and of course Lunn Poly and Thomas Cook had been nationalised along with just about everything else (essential industry and all that).

Still, I am sure this was all very 'fair' in the eyes of the lefties amongst us, and of course as well as our Victorian spleandour, we still have one or two examples of 1970s architecture to remind us of those days of glory.
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