What has Gove been up to?

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FuriousStyles
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What has Gove been up to?

Postby FuriousStyles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:06 pm

Is this being widely discussed and I've just missed it or is it news to anyone else? Google brings back an old mumsnet thread but little else.

http://www.michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/gove-nicked-our-schools-and-handed-them.html

TossPot
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby TossPot » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:05 pm

There's an interesting phenomenon (or maybe even tactic) here. A quick Google shows that the same 'unanswered question' has been cut and pasted between various leftie comments, blogs, forums etc between 2012 and present. No substance, just the same text. Do it often enough and people start to accept the implied allegation (that Ministers are engaged in a criminal conspiracy to defraud the taxpayer) as a self-evident truth though: Left-inclined pub bores are already no doubt stating as fact that ''Michael Gove stole £10bn worth of school land and gave it away to Tory cronies.' (see, even I'm close to being drawn in as a 'useful idiot' here, so it's probably a good point to point out that this appears to be a load of shite).

If you're not actually intentionally spreading false rumour, pause and think for a moment. There's no shortage of Tory-hating, left wing gobshite investigative journalists out there. They've had 18 months to dig into this. Don't you think it a little odd that they've not managed to produce anything of substance? Don't you pause to exercise your critical faculties before passing a rumour on via the internet? Do you really just swallow any old shite you want to believe and then pass it on?

The answers anyway were contained in some of the subsequent comments in the Mumsnet thread that you referred to (but obviously either hadn't read properly, or chose to misrepresent):


"I worked on numerous academy conversions and in not one did the land transfer fees come to anything like £25k. The companies behind academies are charitable companies limited by guarantee with articles that require them to hold all their assets for educational activities for the benefit of the public. As has been said upthread, typically the land is leased from the local authority on a long lease. Where are you getting all this from?"

"Have you not read this thread? The allegations made by the OP are completely untrue. The land used by academies remains in public ownership. The amount transferred into private ownership is nil. If, as the OP suggests, you ask Michael Gove if your council gets the money when they sell off school land he can honestly answer yes, they do. Every penny. "

and last but not least:

"This is one of the best threads ever and should be published ideally in the Guardian and Telegraph as it shows how you always need to delve into the facts before jumping to conclusions and always read the underlying law and regulations. It also shows how much people will seek to misrepresent things to con people into taking a particular view"

So which are you? Gullible, or intentionally misleading?
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Stanley
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby Stanley » Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:48 pm

Well, according to every teacher I've spoken to, he's been systematically ruining the education system. I'm not sure if he's done anything illegal though.

Rabid left wingers will want to believe he has. TossPot wants to believe he hasn't.
Keep an open mind...but not so open that your brain falls out.

Sarah_B
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby Sarah_B » Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:52 pm

He also said this recently (excuse the source):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... world.html

Perhaps the only sensible thing he has ever said.

TossPot
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby TossPot » Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:04 pm

Stanley wrote: I'm not sure if he's done anything illegal though.

Rabid left wingers will want to believe he has. TossPot wants to believe he hasn't.


There are two sides to an argument eh Stanley? Well except in this case, one side is an implied allegation, without substance, multiplied by repeated sly / dim-witted references to the implied allegation. The other side is the facts. I'm not trying to convince anyone of my views here. Just pointing out that a few minutes digging would pretty rapidly lead any intelligent and reasonable person to conclude the allegation was a load of shite.

Repeating an implied (but false) allegation, as Mrs Bercow demonstrated, ain't that smart.

As to Gove wrecking the education system, I made no comment on that. That's a separate (and subjective ) issue. Opinions may vary. I'll leave that to others to debate.
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blenkinsop
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby blenkinsop » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:40 pm

Many teachers don't like Gove because he is stopping the gravy train, and actually addressing an education system which has become a laughing stock from the academic performance perspective, compared to almost any country that actually cares about it's children's education.

All this crap about him wrecking the education system, is a complete red herring. Anyone who has had any exposure to teachers / teaching in our schools, will know the score. New and enthusiastic entrants to the teaching profession are appalled by the lack of quality / standards, but daren't say anything for fear of negative career impact. The best just leave.

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annie
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby annie » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:31 pm

The vast, VAST majority of teachers, new and old, believe Gove's tampering is damaging teaching, and education as whole, but don't let facts get in the way of your right-wing rhetoric, please.

Michael Rosen's site details the catastrophic effects he is having quite well. As someone who has decades of experience of the educational system of the country, I'd say he's better placed to have an informed opinion than the privately educated son of a fishmonger who came from journalism.... or the Tory contingent of Chorlton Web, who seem to specialise in base churnalism.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

blenkinsop
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby blenkinsop » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:51 pm

Michael Rosen is the Oxford educated son of communist parents, and a regular contributor to the Socialist Worker. Enough said.

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annie
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby annie » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:11 pm

blenkinsop wrote:Michael Rosen is the Oxford educated son of communist parents, and a regular contributor to the Socialist Worker. Enough said.


You say that as if it's a bad thing :)

I'd hazard a guess that the decades of work he has done in raising education standards and fighting the right-wing's infiltration to our childrens' minds qualifies him to comment more than Gove's 7 years of incompetent, brainless meddling.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

TossPot
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby TossPot » Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:19 pm

annie wrote:son of a fishmonger


Wow. How delightfully Victorian. So Gove's (adoptive) family is 'in trade' and therefore he should be shunned by polite society? I had my suspicions that was how some Champagne Socialists actually thought, but I didn't realise that stale cider Socialists thought that way too.

Blenkers. I must admit I'd failed to research Rosen's loyalties. I was actually pretty shocked to see he'd pasted shite like that on his site, as to me he's 'that bloke who presents that interesting and engaging programme on Radio 4'. He should know better. Now I know he consorts with Socialist Workers, alles klar.
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FuriousStyles
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby FuriousStyles » Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:33 pm

:lol:

Christ Tosspot, I didn't read the mumsnet thread as it is blocked at work so I suppose that makes me gullible.

TossPot
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby TossPot » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:54 am

FuriousStyles wrote::lol:

Christ Tosspot, I didn't read the mumsnet thread as it is blocked at work so I suppose that makes me gullible.


OK, I'll wind my neck in then. On the basis of your previous posts here, your agenda is certainly very Chorlton, rather than being on of our resident self-satisfied lefties. My salvo was aimed more at the way they operate, rather than at you personally, though you can probably sense that it annoys me when folk spread their shite, unwittingly or otherwise.
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annie
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby annie » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:17 am

Physician, heal thyself.
One must always be wary of the march of the right-wing. I advocate public flogging/confiscation of assets/rehoming of their young

TossPot
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby TossPot » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:56 am

Insolent old trout, boil thyself.
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Stanley
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Re: What has Gove been up to?

Postby Stanley » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:09 am

There's an interesting article in the Spectator written by someone who liked Michael Gove and his policies very much...until he met him.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/915 ... hael-gove/

blekinsop, "Anyone who has had any exposure to teachers / teaching in our schools, will know the score. New and enthusiastic entrants to the teaching profession are appalled by the lack of quality / standards, but daren't say anything for fear of negative career impact."

It's hard to know where to start with that but let's just say that every single part of that is simply not true according to my varied experience of teachers, new and old.
Keep an open mind...but not so open that your brain falls out.


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