Wiped clear laptop question

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annie
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby annie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:10 pm

gitface wrote:
Linux is a pain in the ass in your opinion. Most people who haven't tried a recent distribution think that.


Windows remains the best option for ordinary end-users. This is fact, not opinion.

If I was inclined to pay for an operating system (which clearly I'm not), I would expect timely security updates. I was surprised you were advocating otherwise.


I'm advocating an appropriate OS for the appropriate hardware. An XP without new updates is not dead OS, nor is it inherently a dangerous one. Also, 90% of computer attacks come from emailed viruses and website malware. A good antivirus program such as AVG will deal with that.

http://blogs.microsoft.com/cybertrust/2013/08/15/the-risk-of-running-windows-xp-after-support-ends-april-2014/
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andy_landy
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby andy_landy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:08 pm

annie wrote:Windows remains the best option for ordinary end-users. This is fact, not opinion.


no. for most users the operating system is completely irrelevant. what is important is the applications the want to use.

the OP made clear they needed powerpoint, which kinds of drives us down the microsoft route, which is fair enough. although i shall respectfully disagree with your opinion on linux as my experience is that installs "just work".

whoever recommended openoffice, i'm not sure i agree with that. my historical experience is that openoffice is fine in isolation, but the minute you need to exchange files with other people who are using microsoft office, then all sorts of subtle incompatibilities raise their head. mostly formatting and layout, but it's enough to make me think "this isn't working quite right".

also really not sure i can agree with the recommendation of installing xp, unless the OP wants to use an old version of microsoft office (the current version of office requires windows 7 of higher). nothing wrong with using an older version of office per se, until you come to share your files with other peopls using newer version of office, and then you run into all the same openoffice-style subtle incompatibilities as above.

gitface
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby gitface » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:23 pm

Stating something as fact doesn't make it a fact, Annie.

If you're happy with 10% of attacks getting through (your figures), fine. I just wouldn't be.

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annie
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby annie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:27 pm

andy_landy wrote:no. for most users the operating system is completely irrelevant. what is important is the applications the want to use.


... which is why they will more than likely require Windows. MS Office is an industry standard in schools and businesses everywhere. Also most add-on devices supply Windows drivers. You'll have to look around for others. For most home/business users, Windows remains the only real choice. Linux, in whatever distro, is an option for MS haters, PC geeks and tech rebels. (But the most attractive feature is of course that a lot of the software is open-source (free))

also really not sure i can agree with the recommendation of installing xp, unless the OP wants to use an old version of microsoft office (the current version of office requires windows 7 of higher). nothing wrong with using an older version of office per se, until you come to share your files with other peopls using newer version of office, and then you run into all the same openoffice-style subtle incompatibilities as above.


... expect of course that the standardised Office 97-2004 formats (which existed during XP's tenure) are the most standard types of all. The docx formats the current generation uses cause far more issues than the older formats ever will.

Calm down about XP, people. It's a definite option for underpowered hardware. However, at the end of the day, Sarah should really be looking at a laptop no more than 4 or 5 years old anyway, which should be loaded with Windows 7.

Sarah...Computer OSs, formats and applications are not definitive. Techy people all have their own solutions, and, as you can see, often disagree in their delivery.
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby annie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:31 pm

gitface wrote:Stating something as fact doesn't make it a fact, Annie.

If you're happy with 10% of attacks getting through (your figures), fine. I just wouldn't be.


Scaremongering flimflam. In the real world, such things rarely affect home users behind a firewalled router. Corporate networks are far more vulnerable.

Oh and, although it is stating the obvious, any computer connected to the internet is vulnerable , in some, tiny, itsy-bitsy way.

Real-world experiences count for more than theoretical vulnerabilities.
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby andy_landy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:21 pm

annie wrote:Real-world experiences count for more than theoretical vulnerabilities.


i maintain a couple of servers in the cloud and i can assure you they are under CONSTANT attack. i just need to look at the webserver logs. it's a warzone out there on the internet. the recent shellshock exploit that was all over the mainstream media a few days ago? attempted break-in the very same day it was announced.

at home? had my pc compromised a few years ago due to ex wife having used a weak password. and the number of family and friends that randomly browse... dodgy... websites or just click on email attachments... it boggles belief. heck, i am reasonably tech savvy and even i was almost taken in by the recent bh live peter pan tickets scam. an old neighbour of mine from a few years ago was a right one for clicking on anything. i had to clean up his laptop several times. i kept telling him but it just didn't sink in, "click here for hot pr0n", bam, infected, "click here to make money fast", bam, infected again.

the moral is to keep your computers patched and up-to-date, and where applicable keep your antivirus software up-to-date. it's not 100% but it's probably Good Enough.

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annie
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby annie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:33 pm

andy_landy wrote:i maintain a couple of servers in the cloud and i can assure you they are under CONSTANT attack. i just need to look at the webserver logs. it's a warzone out there on the internet. the recent shellshock exploit that was all over the mainstream media a few days ago? attempted break-in the very same day it was announced.


I spent several years as a datacentre administrator, so I'm perfectly well aware of such attacks, and the sophistication of their delivery. However, datacentre-hosted servers, real or virtual, ARE constantly scanned and often attacked because they host services. Home computers, usually, do not. Ports on routers, therefore, are not open so probes fail at the first hurdle. This is not a comparable situation in any way.

at home? had my pc compromised a few years ago due to ex wife having used a weak password. and the number of family and friends that randomly browse... dodgy... websites or just click on email attachments... it boggles belief. heck, i am reasonably tech savvy and even i was almost taken in by the recent bh live peter pan tickets scam. an old neighbour of mine from a few years ago was a right one for clicking on anything. i had to clean up his laptop several times. i kept telling him but it just didn't sink in, "click here for hot pr0n", bam, infected, "click here to make money fast", bam, infected again.


Yup... as I said... mostly a result of being dumb, not cunning infiltrated security vulnerabilities. No patch issued by MS will ever have stopped such wilful ignorance. No patch ever will. A good combination package such as AVG or similar to catch virii and malware is essential, and still available for XP, for those still using a 13 year old OS :)

the moral is to keep your computers patched and up-to-date, and where applicable keep your antivirus software up-to-date. it's not 100% but it's probably Good Enough.


Indeed.
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andy_landy
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby andy_landy » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:02 pm

annie wrote:Ports on routers, therefore, are not open so probes fail at the first hurdle.


careful. at the beginning of this year a deliberate backdoor was discovered in various routers from cisco, linksys, netgear and a few others i forget.

although i concede that in this case the attacker would very specifically have to target YOUR router. as i said earlier it's a warzone out there...

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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby gitface » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:13 pm

annie wrote:Scaremongering flimflam. In the real world, such things rarely affect home users behind a firewalled router. Corporate networks are far more vulnerable.


As I said, if you're happy running insecure computers that's your business. I don't.

You've gone from 90% of attacks being browser and mail based to "such things rarely affect home users behind a firewalled router". Make up figures to support your opinions much? :lol:

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annie
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby annie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:18 pm

andy_landy wrote:
annie wrote:Ports on routers, therefore, are not open so probes fail at the first hurdle.


careful. at the beginning of this year a deliberate backdoor was discovered in various routers from cisco, linksys, netgear and a few others i forget.

although i concede that in this case the attacker would very specifically have to target YOUR router. as i said earlier it's a warzone out there...


Life is a series of risks.... how you manage that risk is up to you. One would suggest that the chances of a hacker trying to hack some unknown domestic router, which usually does not respond to pings (and as such is hard to find at all), in order to access services which don't run on most home computers, or to try and gain access via some cryptic backdoor... is a risk so incredibly minimal that it's really not worth getting worked up about. :)

Hackers have bigger fish to fry. The porn site surfers, the pirate software downloaders, the people who open emails with dodgy attachments, and the mugs who haven't yet learned that if something seems too good to be true, it is.
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annie
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby annie » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:22 pm

gitface wrote:
annie wrote:Scaremongering flimflam. In the real world, such things rarely affect home users behind a firewalled router. Corporate networks are far more vulnerable.


As I said, if you're happy running insecure computers that's your business. I don't.

You've gone from 90% of attacks being browser and mail based to "such things rarely affect home users behind a firewalled router". Make up figures to support your opinions much? :lol:


Sorry... what EXACTLY are you trying to achieve here? Are you just talking shit for your personal enjoyment, or is this yet another "bait Annie" thread, like so many others?

I'm seriously not in the mood for this kind of trivial shit, as I lost a relative recently. Point scoring with Chorlton Web dicks is beneath me right now.

Sarah, please ignore the armchair computer fiddlers. Everyone thinks they know about computers these days. I'm a career professional.
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gitface
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Re: Wiped clear laptop question

Postby gitface » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:18 pm

annie wrote:Sorry... what EXACTLY are you trying to achieve here? Are you just talking shit for your personal enjoyment, or is this yet another "bait Annie" thread, like so many others?


Trying to stop someone using a dangerously insecure system for things like online banking. I'm not victimising you Annie.

Sorry to hear you're having a bad time...


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